Comments on: my conversation with rob bell http://eugenecho.wordpress.com/2008/04/16/my-conversation-with-rob-bell/ loving mercy, seeking justice, walking humbly Mon, 07 Jul 2008 14:20:48 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=MU By: Clint http://eugenecho.wordpress.com/2008/04/16/my-conversation-with-rob-bell/#comment-15136 Clint Tue, 27 May 2008 12:14:51 +0000 http://eugenecho.wordpress.com/?p=852#comment-15136 Mark, Then be a solution. People who don't want to worship Christ through His Body because of the "hypocrites" are a dime a dozen. So what if there are 10 times more people that wear the jersey than play the game--suck it up, play the game (love Jesus) with all your heart and bear with the many failings of those who profess faith in Him. Eugene, I may have misunderstood you about the women in church leadership. But, why do we let culture determine what we are biblically faithful to? Grace, wrath, and judgment aren't popular either. Holding to sound (healthy) doctrine (as Paul encourages) will never be popular and it would be difficult to squeeze out an egalitarian theology from his writings as inspired by the HS. I don't think Driscoll's declaration of Bell as a heretic isn't far off. False teachers aren't JW's and Mormons, they are among us. If Jesus declares himself to be the "way, truth, and the life" and that "no one comes to the Father except through Him", I think its safe to declare heresy when a really passionate and nice guy contradicts that in the name of improving Christianity. Sometimes I think we are divisive over ridiculous things but we skip the really important things we SHOULD be divisive over. Mark,
Then be a solution. People who don’t want to worship Christ through His Body because of the “hypocrites” are a dime a dozen. So what if there are 10 times more people that wear the jersey than play the game–suck it up, play the game (love Jesus) with all your heart and bear with the many failings of those who profess faith in Him.

Eugene,
I may have misunderstood you about the women in church leadership. But, why do we let culture determine what we are biblically faithful to? Grace, wrath, and judgment aren’t popular either. Holding to sound (healthy) doctrine (as Paul encourages) will never be popular and it would be difficult to squeeze out an egalitarian theology from his writings as inspired by the HS.

I don’t think Driscoll’s declaration of Bell as a heretic isn’t far off. False teachers aren’t JW’s and Mormons, they are among us. If Jesus declares himself to be the “way, truth, and the life” and that “no one comes to the Father except through Him”, I think its safe to declare heresy when a really passionate and nice guy contradicts that in the name of improving Christianity. Sometimes I think we are divisive over ridiculous things but we skip the really important things we SHOULD be divisive over.

]]> By: Mark http://eugenecho.wordpress.com/2008/04/16/my-conversation-with-rob-bell/#comment-15024 Mark Sat, 24 May 2008 01:47:21 +0000 http://eugenecho.wordpress.com/?p=852#comment-15024 I keep seeing Rose talking about sharing the "power" and men with "power" and the church "power" structure. I have listened to over a hundred hours of Rob Bell's teachings and its clear to me that he doesn't see church as an agent of power but rather a place to serve. If you are seeking power in church then your idea of church is already broken. I don't bother going to church anymore because all I saw there were greedy people seeking power. I keep seeing Rose talking about sharing the “power” and men with “power” and the church “power” structure.

I have listened to over a hundred hours of Rob Bell’s teachings and its clear to me that he doesn’t see church as an agent of power but rather a place to serve. If you are seeking power in church then your idea of church is already broken.

I don’t bother going to church anymore because all I saw there were greedy people seeking power.

]]> By: J. R. Miller http://eugenecho.wordpress.com/2008/04/16/my-conversation-with-rob-bell/#comment-14452 J. R. Miller Mon, 12 May 2008 20:26:37 +0000 http://eugenecho.wordpress.com/?p=852#comment-14452 Eugene Cho wrote on April 16 "j.r. - we shouldn’t be afraid to dialogue. there’s no flame war here. let me chew on what you wrote a little more." I have been working through a response that will soon go up on my site. It is too bad we have not been able to have a fuller conversation as you once suggested. Eugene Cho wrote on April 16 “j.r. - we shouldn’t be afraid to dialogue. there’s no flame war here. let me chew on what you wrote a little more.”

I have been working through a response that will soon go up on my site. It is too bad we have not been able to have a fuller conversation as you once suggested.

]]> By: supporting women in all levels of leadership & ministry « beauty and depravity http://eugenecho.wordpress.com/2008/04/16/my-conversation-with-rob-bell/#comment-14223 supporting women in all levels of leadership & ministry « beauty and depravity Tue, 06 May 2008 09:44:43 +0000 http://eugenecho.wordpress.com/?p=852#comment-14223 [...] be ordained for ministry.  And to give you a little context, this is what I wrote in an earlier post about supporting women in ministry: …we have to ask how are we as revolutionary followers of Jesus - who debunked the systemic [...] [...] be ordained for ministry.  And to give you a little context, this is what I wrote in an earlier post about supporting women in ministry: …we have to ask how are we as revolutionary followers of Jesus - who debunked the systemic [...]

]]> By: Linda http://eugenecho.wordpress.com/2008/04/16/my-conversation-with-rob-bell/#comment-13957 Linda Sun, 27 Apr 2008 05:40:43 +0000 http://eugenecho.wordpress.com/?p=852#comment-13957 JR, I don't see anywhere in Gaius' comments to indicate he is "scared" to "serve Jesus first". He didn't seem to be advocating following the "righteousness of the Law", nor did he seem to disagree that we should do God's Will. ---------- "J.R.’s advice, however, seems to insinuate that all that should be done is to “love,” “respect,” and “pray.” While all those actions are godly in themselves, those cannot be the only actions taken in light of injustice in the world - i.e. MLK, Gandhi. While both practiced non-violence, both did not encourage not doing anything to rectify the respective situations of their communities. Quite the opposite, both engaged in strategic confrontation to wear down those who oppressed them. Without action, however, what you get is maintaining of a status quo that is just plain wrong - i.e. Myanmar, Zimbabwe, N. Korea etc. J.R’s advice also negates the possibility that God does give and take away power to maintain a more just society - i.e. many times in the Old Testament. Again, I have no issue with the concepts of giving up rights, love, and respect, but an overemphasis on them can be impractical at best and at worst, damaging. Prayer is not “ineffective” or “ineffectual,” but we are also called to seek justice and love mercy in this world in a very tangible sense. " --------- JR, I don’t see anywhere in Gaius’ comments to indicate he is “scared” to “serve Jesus first”. He didn’t seem to be advocating following the “righteousness of the Law”, nor did he seem to disagree that we should do God’s Will.
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“J.R.’s advice, however, seems to insinuate that all that should be done is to “love,” “respect,” and “pray.” While all those actions are godly in themselves, those cannot be the only actions taken in light of injustice in the world - i.e. MLK, Gandhi. While both practiced non-violence, both did not encourage not doing anything to rectify the respective situations of their communities. Quite the opposite, both engaged in strategic confrontation to wear down those who oppressed them.

Without action, however, what you get is maintaining of a status quo that is just plain wrong - i.e. Myanmar, Zimbabwe, N. Korea etc. J.R’s advice also negates the possibility that God does give and take away power to maintain a more just society - i.e. many times in the Old Testament. Again, I have no issue with the concepts of giving up rights, love, and respect, but an overemphasis on them can be impractical at best and at worst, damaging. Prayer is not “ineffective” or “ineffectual,” but we are also called to seek justice and love mercy in this world in a very tangible sense. ”
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]]> By: Jesus and Compassion http://eugenecho.wordpress.com/2008/04/16/my-conversation-with-rob-bell/#comment-13936 Jesus and Compassion Fri, 25 Apr 2008 16:39:05 +0000 http://eugenecho.wordpress.com/?p=852#comment-13936 [...] read something in the comments the other day over at Eugene Cho’s blog that I haven’t been able to stop thinking about. The post was in relation to the whole [...] [...] read something in the comments the other day over at Eugene Cho’s blog that I haven’t been able to stop thinking about. The post was in relation to the whole [...]

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